Shades After page 98
Online dating- sometimes works, sometimes the only people you find interesting online are asshats. It’s a mixed bag!
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I echo JD. Precisely. GO ANWAR.
Word!
(heh, fancy seeing you here, somehow I’m not surprised)
Actually the only way to deal with those kind of people whether you’re religious or not.
Agreed I’m not religious – raised atheist but that’s a really cruddy thing to say.
The thing that chick said to anwar was cruddy
I appreciate her opinion. I despise organized religion, but at the same time that’s not something to bring up on a first date.
I agree, Phantom. I truly hate organized religion and can respect secularism much more, but I wouldn’t say this to someone for awhile because it can be a touchy subject if you aren’t given a chance to go into full detail with your opinion. Has no room for a first date, either.
Agreed, but when is the time… I never know when to bring up the fact that I’m atheist, especially because I’ve had many people refuse to date me of even talk to me afterwords, no matter when I talk about it.
It has to happen eventually if one is to be honest in a relationship, but when to do so is a good question.
Well Phoenix, despite what I stated above, I’m a bit of a rogue in that I feel I ought to put all my cards on the table early on when establishing a romantic arrangement.
It probably goes without saying I don’t date often (hate it), and I don’t make friends easy. Or I do make friends easy, but I’m a very polarizing individual. (Who knew men’s rights was such a touchy subject?)
Can.. Can you elaborate please?
Please tell me that your closing statement in parenthesis was a joke.
What, so you could prove my point?
It’s quite possible to mention you’re an atheist without putting others down or being offensive about it. There’s not much point getting into it if there’s another thing that you’re seeing as incompatible, but if you’re starting to feel like it could work… that’s when you’d want to say something.
I’m not exactly fond of modern organized religion and how it repeatedly tries to ruin my life, but I’m sure as hell not going to take it out on individual religious people who aren’t doing anything to me, particularly on a first date.
I dunno, it keeps everyone from wasting their time.
I suppose if someone is going to be that asshole who argues with every religious person no matter what the situation, I’d like to know that up front so I know to run the hell away from them.
Unnnnfortunately there seems to be a lot of them in the sorts of circles I move in. I married someone who’s reaction to religion is a winced “ehnnnn” at best. Slowly he’s coming around to understanding that you don’t need to share someone’s faith to accept it as a beautiful thing they experience, and that the religious extremists don’t define the religion.
(Although I’m of a religious leaning that is somewhat incompatible with extremism which results in him going “but you’re DIFFERENT!” a little too often. Sigh. Oh well.)
Also speaking as a transman, online dating for dudes looking for ladies sucks. Online dating for bisexual dudes who would like to have options with ladies sucks too. Actually I think it kind of just works best for gay people.
Non-binary people probably get the shortest end of the suck-stick though. I’m guessing anyway.
We do, tbh. Most don’t even allow us to ID as the gender we are. OTL
I was more thinking of the attitude and treatment of other online daters, but it never occurred to me about the treatment of the site itself. Probably because the only site I’ve used is OKCupid, which now has a variety of options for gender identity and sexuality (and is free and not too horrible.)
Hopefully other sites will follow suit- which won’t “fix” how other online daters act and react but would be a biiiig step in the right direction.
It allows various gender options, but it still forces people to be listed among men or women, essentially reducing our options to a binary under the hood. I understand why they felt necessary to keep the binary engine for filtering serving the vast majority of people, but this way the new labels don’t make *that* much of a difference compared to before, when we could still write our real gender in the description textbox regardless what it said on the profile header.
Ah, apologies, I understand better now. A step in the right direction but a smaller one than I first thought.
My best friend is trans male, and girls are such complete bitches to him when it comes to online dating. But Okcupid just changed their settings to allow trans and ace identities to be displayed so that should help weed out the shallow, ignorant people.
Yeah, the only people I’ve ever really had more than a couple of messages back and forth with have all been guys. I mean, I ended up married to one of them so it’s not all bad, but I prefer the ladies and it’s very hard to get to know them on dating websites. Even when I thought I was getting on well with them it fizzles out fast.
Bizarrely it was easier pre-transition.
My experience has been the opposite. To paint with a very broad brush, it seems like straight women are looking for A Good Man, while gay men are looking for Some Good Dick. I’ve had less experience dating women post transition than I have men, but fuckkkk men are just asshats sometimes.
Which, ironically, is why it can be so hard to find women on these websites- because so many men are asshats and/or only after sex. Seems reasonable that they’d become judgemental- problematic for actual potential matches who don’t get much of a chance, but reasonable.
Online dating can be both good and bad…. there were some real jerks i met over the years… but then i found the one person in the world who i think really “gets” my oddness in all its glory! And the great news is… after a few years of plotting and trying and researching HE IS MOVING TO CANADA!!! Yay! (Well yay seeing as i am also in Canada.) His student visa was just approved and we are just scrounging up the moving funds then he will be on his way! i am so excited i could burst! Also he is bringing up the furry children… my kitty may not be as fluffy and orange as Poof but she is all the attitude and more.
Bottom line… some times long distance online relationships are the best. For the first while at least there is no physical … all you have to go on is talking, and talking is something that not enough couples do these days.
Wishing the best! My fiance is someone I’ve known online since about 2002, started dating 2011. It’s definitely possible for it to be successful. :)
Met my date-mate online. Total accident too. We weren’t looking for partners just a fellow ace to hang out with and we were in the same city. So we chatted online for months and when we felt safe enough started to meet in person. We were friends both on and offline for 6 months before dating. Now we’ve been together as a couple for 10 months! I know online dating horror stories tho so I’m sure I got one of the luck rare events that were really good for each other and encourage each others goals etc.
Ya know, as much grief as people can give online dating, dating before online dating wasn’t any better tbh. In my experience, the best bet is going to munches and meet-ups and actually meeting people and hoping for the best.
Anwar speaks truth. I would definitely walk out on a date if they started spouting that kinda nonsense. XP
I dunno, maybe it’s my upbringing (very religious) or my current belief-system (athiest, but not angry) but when I hear someone that angry about religion I assume they’ve been hurt very badly by systemic religion or people espousing a hateful religious meme. Add to it that the woman he went on that date with also identified as Ace also waves a huge day-glo red flag to me that she’d been sexually abused by a religious figure or layperson deeply involved. I’m not saying all Ace people were abused (any more than all lesbians) but that level of hurt and anger has to have a cause.
Whatever the cause though, all we know of her is that she thinks religion is evil. With faith still playing an important role in his life, Anwar shouldn’t have to put up with a partner that continuously badmouths something of importance to him. (Hell, we’ve seen him try to put up with having sex, and we know how that went down.) Even if what you said *was* true of her, she’d need therapy to heal, not a potentially rocky relationship.
Why are you assuming that she would badmouth his religion? I hate religions, they do so much harm and as a queer person I can’t forgive them for thinking that I’m a freak, but if I was dating a religious person I would never badmouth religion in front of them. I would respect their beliefs. That woman Anwar was dating probably didn’t know that he’s religious.
Still, someone who calls it “the root of all evil” seems like a person with whom religious Anwar would likely not feel at ease. Even if they tried not to tell him that to his face, such strong feelings are likely to filter through.
I’ve been there. My ex actively hated all of Christianity and strongly disliked the fact that I’m Christian. He never said it that clearly, but he certainly let me feel it. I constantly felt the need to apologize for my beliefs, even though I had done nothing wrong. My current SO is an atheist, too – but he respects my faith and supports me in things that make me happy, even if they may mean nothing to him.
Attitude makes a world of difference
Because she just did. Whether or not she knew is irrelevant.
I recently started cutting ties with friends who are open about the fact that they “hate the sin, love the sinner” when it comes to their queer acquaintances, because I realized that I don’t have to keep sacrificing my self-respect in hopes that they will one day see the light.
Maybe I prioritize honesty higher than most, but it kind of feels like you’re doing the same thing to your religious friends. And maybe for some people that’s OK? Im still working on this.
^^This. This comment is beautiful.
If someone fundamentally does not respect something that is important to you and is overtly negative about it, you do not have to put up with it. It doesn’t matter if that thing is religion, sexuality, gender identity, politics, or that one show you have been obsessively writing fanfiction about for the last six months.
There IS room in a healthy relationship for meaningful discussion of these things, including flaws and imperfections. But if someone comes out the gate with nothing but negativity, you don’t have to stick around. If someone refuses to respect your views/identity, you don’t have to keep them in your life.
I don’t respect religion. I just don’t. A religion is a set of beliefs about how the world works. And most religions are objectively, testably, wrong. Why should I respect that?
TRiG.
I didn’t realise “People should stop being dicks” as filtered through the standards of the time and place was disprovable.
My parents were hardcore atheists. They were far more judgemental of anyone who didn’t “fit” their beliefs than any religious person I have EVER known. Stupid me, I tried to actually hold a conversation with my mother about my religious beliefs, during the entirety of which she twisted everything I said into a light that both made it sound as absurd as she could, and was a long shot from what I was ACTUALLY trying to say.
Thankfully my mother is now out of my life, but I honestly think there are more people in the UK who are just plain vehemently anti-religion, rather than people reacting to hurt from within a religion. The rise of multi-cultural awareness and immigration probably doesn’t help that attitude.
I’m asexual.
I’m atheist, and despise organized religion.
I was NOT sexually abused by any religious leader. On the contrary, I got a better education through a Christian school than through public.
But I do despise organized religion, and I especially dislike the Judeo-Christian religions.
But that doesn’t affect my sexuality one way or another. I don’t like the idea of anyone associating the two.
If that’s your views, then whatever, but don’t say that kind of stuff to someone if they don’t show an interest in that topic of discussion.
Ah yes, the holy trinity (no pun intended) of things THOU SHALT NOT BRING UP ON A FIRST DATE:
SEX
POLITICS
RELIGION
Though I feel I’ve gotten old enough to not care, and would rather lay all my cards on the table on a first date rather than have something pop up unexpectedly later on.
Kinda breezing through the comments section, sounds like most people find what she said to be despicable. I actually rather like it. But hey, that’s just me.
It’s fundamentally false and rude. A lust for power and money is what sources all evil, not the quest for spirituality. It is perfectly fine to not desire that or even have an adverse reaction to it, but to call those who wish to find peace in their life by a means you don’t agree with evil is a terrible and selfish thing.
Ha! I’m NOT getting into a religious debate in the comments section of a webcomic. Nice try, though ;-)
I will state that I vehemently disagree with you! Good day, sir or madam!
I’m A Gray Phantom, and I have opinions on the internet!
I’d actually rather bring all of these up on the first date than waste my time on people I’m incompatible with. If they can’t handle it, ah well, their loss.
I agree with Meteor-Echo’s comment ♡
There is a difference between honesty and intolerance. I am a person of very strong faith, but offer respect to others of different/no faith. And I accept no less respect from people in my life. I think Anwar was lucky to have seen this woman clearly right away, but it makes me sad to think that Anwar was hurt by her thoughtless, self-focused attitude.
Im intruiged these are the things not to bring up. I mean why wait until you’re attached to find out your possible SO holds a view you can’t be compaitable with? Personally I’d rather get that out before the date and not even bother if they’re a butthole.
I don’t think second date is particularly “attached” at least, not in my case anyway.
I mean, there are things one brings up on a first date because they’re really important (In my case, I do theater, I’m queer as shit, and I talk a lot so please interrupt me) and if they can’t handle the basics, it’s not worth a second date.
Maybe religion is a thing for this girl where it’s just instant deal-breaker, because her atheism is a core part of her identity.
Wish she would have brought it up a little nicer, but it very well may have been said with a purpose. In which case, ‘War’s response was totally right- I don’t like this, so this encounter ends now.
Shitty experience, but it makes sense.
I’m a Christian leftist. If I was on a first date with another Christian leftist and he said, “Atheism is the source of all evil,” I would find that statement extremist and offensive. And I’m not an atheist. Now imagine how I’d feel if I were an atheist. I say, go Anwar! My reaction wouldn’t be as straightforward, but that’s because I’m anxious about looking “mean,” and more likely to take the passive route (eg, fake smile through the rest of the date, then “lose” his number and email address).
Exactly i’m a atheist but i dont’ see relgion as the “Root of all evil” People have used it as a excuse and abused relgion to do terrible things to other people but its not like all relgions are evil and built for the sole purpose of createing harm.
I’m with you on that. I was Christian, I consider myself empirical agnostic, I admit I despise the particular branch of “Christian” I was in due to bad experiences, but I don’t hate all religions. They serve a much-needed purpose in the psyche of some people, just as medication is necessary for some medical conditions. (“Opiate of the masses” was not far off, but I prefer “Insulin of the conscience.” Opium is not needed, but sometimes Insulin is just to get through day to day.) I can respect that people need the communal connection, the promise of something better, a way to overcome guilt and find restitution. You do that any way you can, and for some religion is the best cure.
So although I’m not religious, although I had bad experiences with one organized religion, I will defend people’s religious rights in the face of hatred and intolerance. Just as I don’t want people to badmouth the LGBTA community to my face, I don’t want people to badmouth religion in front of me.
If you hate gays, you have a SERIOUS problem, but it is exactly the same if you hate religions. Hatred and intolerance are the roots of all evil.
Thank you for putting this in a way everyone should get :)
Love the handwiggles. Oh ‘War.
Although her comment may not have been politically correct, I think that Anwar’s response clearly demonstrates a serious problem with society in general. Getting up and walking away when someone says something that you do not agree with isn’t something that should be celebrated. Are we really saying “Good for you Anwar! You judged someone as worthless based on one thing they said. GO YOU!”??? Really???? I think that many of us here can identify as “weird” in one way or another, and have probably experienced a situation where we have been judged negatively for a single aspect of our person-ness. And I think that we all know how fucking shitty that feels. So how is this cool?
As other people have said, maybe she had a reason to hate/dislike religion. Maybe Anwar should have asked “Hey, why do you think that?” or “I’m kind of religious, do you think that I am evil?” rather than just jumping to conclusions and, honestly, proving himself to be pretty much a jerk.
This kind of avoidance behavior is why there are so many problems in the world. Why can’t people just sit down and ask “Why?” Is it really that hard? That was a rhetorical question, because, no, it’s not that hard at all. By asking why, Anwar could have learned something more about this person, and maybe something more about how people think. And, yeah, sure, maybe she would have just been some sheep that just spout off whatever anti-religious propaganda that she reads in her Facebook news feed. Or maybe she would have turned out to be one of those completely annoying people who cannot stand an opposing point of view. At that point, I understand being like “Yeah this isn’t going to work…” and walking away. But it didn’t even come to that. So how do we excuse his asshole behavior? By saying that she was being offensive? Well, as my roommate tells me (and correctly), pointing at one person’s bad behavior as an excuse for your own is just plain shit.
*sigh*
Some of the most interesting and enriching conversations I have had have been with people who hold the exact opposite opinion than mine. And while these conversations generally do not end with a “we all agree”, I generally come out with more knowledge than I had before. And that, I think, is something that is worth pursuing.
Anyway. I am really not trying to come off as confrontational. I actually hate confrontation. So, please do not yell at me if you disagree. I just believe that most people should be given the benefit of doubt and not just judged for one thing they say. Because, damn, I often suffer from foot-in-mouth syndrome, and I know I would feel pretty damn shitty if I said something dumb to someone I was having coffee with and they just got up and left without more than two words.
Diana, there’s a time and place for hard, self-challenging conversations. They are valuable, and not always to be walked away from.
But the goal of this encounter was not to have challenging conversation, it was to see if these two people were romantically compatible. After that exchange, given Anwar’s identity, I think it’s pretty safe to say they were not. Which makes his action very reasonable.
Let’s say it’s not about religion. Let’s say someone had told ‘War on a first date that homosexuality was the route of all evil. Or the blurring of gender lines or roles. Or x race.
Lumping a large group of people together and saying they are “the cause of all evil” is not new; historically though, it has gone badly at best and horrifically at worst. It’s a really vile thing to do and I would probably choose to walk away from it as well.
Commenting on a trait- greed, lust for power, empathetic blindness- is totally not the same, as those are not usually part of a person’s identity nor are theyunique to any group, and, when indulged, are almost universally destructive. But what she said, AT BEST, demonstrates that she and Anwar are totally incompatible, and at worst shows that she is actively prejudiced against all peoples within a group (those with religion.) Either way ‘War had a right to remove himself from a situation where he was uncomfortable- he had no obligation to educate her or try to understand her reasoning.
I still, politely, disagree with the opinion that he did the right thing. In my opinion, it was still a dick move, but I understand why other people would think otherwise.
“Right” and “wrong” is very subjective. He very likely did the right thing for himself; the wrong thing for politeness. Beyond that it really is a matter of discussion, where it was right or wrong, and how important those things are.
It’s always good when a discussion which involves a disagreement can be civil. :)
I agree with you. What is right for one person is not necessarily right for another. If asked, I will share my faith, but I will not debate with anyone about it, anymore than I would debate my . That is what is “right” for me and I reject anyone telling me that I’m “wrong.” Based on what we’ve learned about Anwar, his reaction to an offensive person is what was best for his emotional health. I totally get him!
…debate my identity/orientation, etc…
I think he could have handled it more savvily, but that his choice to nope the fuck out of there in general was ultimately the best choice for him to make. I do think the comment was probably some paraphrased “I read it on facebook” bullshit, but if anything that just shows that she’s willing to speak before thinking. I think there are people who are worth having the hard conversations with, and those who simply aren’t. Debates are for bridging gaps and sharing ideas. He didn’t know this woman, or care for her, or have any reason to be invested in her opinions. If, on a first date, someone says something that cuts you right to your identity, is it worth it to even debate them? Or have any kind of conversation at all? At this point she was just wasting his time, and while some sort of “Hey I’m not really feeling this, have a nice life” would have been a cooler move, I don’t blame him for looking for the exit.
Thing is, no-one ever owes anyone else a debate – everyone is perfectly within their rights to say “nope, don’t want to have this conversation” and walk away. If you *do* want to get into a debate, great! But if you don’t, there’s no shame in that – and sometimes, walking away from something that your gut tells you is going to turn into a huge, horrible argument that will really drain you is essential self-care.
‘War hasn’t gone into huge amounts of detail re the Islamophobia that he’s experienced, but it’s been implied – and Muslims in the UK are on the receiving end of a huge amount of bigotry on a daily basis. ‘War will be dealing with a constant barrage of bigotry about his religion – I can totally understand that he wouldn’t want to hang around on a date where there’s a strong likelihood that he would hear even more. Dates are meant to be fun and exciting, not an emotional ordeal.
I know for me, I would have questioned her, challenged her, bantered, savored an opportunity to play devil’s advocate, finding my usual thrill in asking the right questions to push the person into a corner, whether if I agree with them or not. I likely also would have come across as a total ass for being so argumentive. Perhaps I should do as Anwar and simply stand up and leave. It would save the other person from going on the defensive, possibly giving her the worst first date of her life and scaring her away from attempting online dating again, and it’s save us both from a very unpleasant evening.
Haha, I love how the “the queer and the prejudiced” are here just as high and mighty and hypocrite as everybody else. Very human. Annoying, too.
Don’t you just love how religious tolerance is code for shaming and guilt tripping atheists who refuse to be religious apologists while completely ignoring the historical track record of organised religion down through the centuries as a tool of violence and oppression, none more so than the Abrahmic faiths. Such modern, many progressive, much wow. Bonus points of course go to all those “I’m not like those other atheists, I make sure to put them down in a self important superior way while claiming the moral high ground as often as possible” types. Don’t worry about replying I’m gonna go turn myself in at a police station since I just broke the law of my modern, western country by identifying as an atheist.
Religious leanings & ‘appropriateness to a 1st date’ aside, I would just think it’s a bit silly to say that one single thing is the source of all evil in the world. I mean, you really think religion causes *all* evil: in every person, every evil act, every time, every place an evil act is committed? Really? Don’t know if I could ultimately get on with someone who is that black/white in their philosophy of life
This makes me happy bc I’m tired of feeling bad about my religion, and then feeling bad for doubting it.
She said it in a rude and overly and primitive simplistic way, but I can see where shes coming from.
organisated religion brought so much misery in this world, so much death and pain. I dislike pretty much how people see religion only as a spiritual way of living. Its a power machine made to make money + spiriuality.
Seeing it only as a nice thing that can be misused is just one part of the truth.
Please go and look up the French Revolution, the Soviet Union, Cambodia, and North Korea.
Totally not on topic, really, but let me just take note of the fact that Anwar tried to see other people while he and JD were on a break. *A break.* Take notes, Rachael.
Haha, I LOVE this comment.
Though, in terms of this story, I am a bit surprised to hear it referred to as a break. It seemed pretty definitive to me…
Ross and Rachel however…total failure to communicate and discuss expectations/boundaries.
Pretty sure the woman didn’t literally say “Religion is the root of all evil.” I mean, this is Anwar talking. When does he not exxagerate?
Not hard to believe, really. I’ve seen it a million times on social media lol
This page is total gold. Anwar, you are officially my hero
religion is! evil! Religious people or the ones killing LGBT+ people, so yes! they or very! evil!
As a bisexual Christian, lemme just say . . . the last panel is pure wisdom. Yes, I’ve got a lot of conflicting stuff going on, but I’m still going to church (where they love me) and if you don’t like that then fuuuuckkk youuu.
Sometimes that response (or one like it) is the only one that lets you stay sane, so please don’t ever feel guilty for making it.